The Chicago MaroonThe University of Chicago Tuesday, October 19,1976SG supports SYL rally,considers foreign student[safeguard committeeBy EARL ANDREWSNearly 100 students gathered inie center quadrangle at noonhursday to witness a rally[denouncing the discriminatory1 partheid laws of South Africa.The demonstration, held by theacus Youth League (SYL),supported by StudentEminent (SG), ended after{about an hour after most of the(crowd had dispersed. Reaction toIthedemonstration was subdued.I in addition to lending supportto the SYL rally Tuesday, SG[failed, for the second week in a[row, to establish a standingcommittee on human rights. The[assembly voted to refer themotion to the Election & Rules[committee in order to rephrase[the proposal in parliamentary[language.Speaking in favor of theolution was Anand Kumar, a[graduate student from India[whose criticism of the Gandhi[regime last year resulted in the■Indian government terminating[his scholarship. In his appeal to|SG to support a Human Rights[committee, Kumar cited the[problems that may be faced by'foreign students in cases of op¬ pression by their governments.The revised edition of thisresolution is scheduled for con¬sideration at tonight’s SGmeeting in the first floor libraryof Ida Noyes Hall at 7:30 p.m.Also considered and rejectedby the SG assembly was aproposal to enlist SG in theNational Student Association,(NSA) making it possible for theUniversity to host an upcomingNSA conference.It was charged that theUniversity, formerly a memberof NSA, had withdrawn from the«group in the late sixties becauseof alleged connections betweenthe NSA and the Central In¬telligence Agency.A majority of students saidthey thought Tuesday’s rallywould accomplish nothing,although many said they wishedsuch a demonstration could beuseful. A number of studentsexpressed disappointment in thefact that the rally was not verylively. Statements such as “it’snot like the old days of collegeactivism,” and, “the days ofBerkeley are gone for good” werecommon. SGto2 Norris, PI head, resignsBy DAVID BLUMHoke Norris, assistant vice-president for public affairs anddirector of the office of publicinformation, will retire at the endof November to return to free¬lance writing and editing.Norris came to the Universitytwo years ago following a 40-year career in newspaper workand fiction writing. As director ofthe University’s public relationseffort, Norris sought coverage forevents, activities and researchconnected with the campuscommunity in the news media.The 63-year-old North Carolinanative said Monday that hisdeparture from the University is“either now or never.”“I hate to leave the University.I really love this place,” saidNorris in his familiar Southerndrawl. “But I really want to getback to writing again.”The author of two novels,Norris worked as a reporter andbook critic for severalnewspapers, including theChicago Sun-Times and ChicagoDaily News. In 1950 Norris won aNieman fellowship to HarvardUniversity.Norris, also an experiencedpublicist, came to the Universityfollowing a three-year stint as two years, has resigned, effective November 1. Norris is a formerreporter and has published several volumes of non-fiction.director of public information forthe Chicago Public Library.Norris’s departure from theUniversity marks the third majorresignation in the area of publicaffairs this year. Arthur R.Mayer, Director of Alumni Af¬fairs, and Donald C. Morris,editor of the University ofChicago Magazine, have bothiSwine flu shots vaccinationsbegin this week at hospital resigned their positions effectiveNovember 1.Iris M. Poliski, formerly a staffmember in the office of publicinformation, was appointed lastmonth to succeed Morris aseditor of the magazine. No suc¬cessor has been named forNayer’s position.PI to 2By FRED MACRAEThe government-funded fluVaccination program begins on a’ ited basis at the University onhursday. Swine Flu shots will beAvailable this week only to peopleAssociated with University“ lical center — students, staff,I volunteers. Dependents whoompany persons connectedith the hospital can also receivei shots.Vaccinations will be madevailable starting November 1st> University staff and faculty,Dd to students and their dependents the following week.Immunization of personsconnected with the medicalcenter will be conducted in theUniversity health clinic areafrom 2-5 pm Thursday, 7-10 amFriday, and from 9 am — noonSaturday. Vaccines are availableto all hospital personnel orfaculty and their dependents overthe age of 18, medical students,and to volunteers with validhospital identification.Following this week’s vac¬cinations, the inoculationequipment, provided by the city’shealth department, will not beFew students plan for shotsWhile national healthauthorities are predicting that60 percent of the AmericanPopulation will receive freeflu inoculations, a ran-“°m sampling of Universitystudents and personnel®*8gests that campus response10 the mass vaccinationJJJgram may lag somewhatSeveral students and staffJJJJing Ida Noyes Hall Sundayujght, asked whether theyPlanned to get vaccinated were““concerned about thePossibility of a flu epidemic. Many doubted whether theywould line up for the shots.“I have a foolish faith in myown health,” remarked agraduate student in the com¬mittee on social thought. AUniversity employee, workingin Ida Noyes, was hesitantabout the vaccination program,a project which no insurancecompany would insure, forcingthe government to insure theprogram itself.“I think I’ll wait it out awhile.I don’t want to rush into it—bethe first, you know,” he said.Reaction to 2 available until November 1st.University personnel and facultycan receive inoculations over athree day schedule, at a centrallocation to be announced later.Over a similar three day periodthe following week, students canreceive vaccinations.Several cases of a virulentstrain of swine flu virus werediscovered in Fort Dix, NewJersey earlier this year. Aftersome debate over the advisabilityof a mass inoculation plan, a $25billion dollar vaccination projectwas passed by Congress andapproved by the President. Thedeath of several elderly personswho had been vaccinated at thesame health center in Pittsburghcaused several states to halt theirvaccination programs last weekuntil they were assured by theCenter for Disease Control inAtlanta that the vaccines werenot the cause of death.One reason for the massinoculation project, according toDr. George LeRoy, director of theUniversity health service, is thatthe circumstances of the out¬break of swine flu at the begin¬ning of the year was “the firsttime there was an early warningof a new strain of flu existing. ”The new strain, which tookseveral lives early in January inFort Dix, New Jersey, is verysimilar to a virulent type of fluwhich broke out nearly 60 yearsago.PI from IIn addition to the rapid succession ofresignations, several new appointments inthe office of public information have led tospeculation by some University officialsthat a “house-cleaning” is taking place inthe campus public relations mechanism.D.J.R. Bruckner, vice-president * forpublic affairs, declined to elaborate onNorris's resignation, or to comment on theoverall staff changes within the depart¬ments he oversees.“Nothing’s happened in the AlumniAssociation fpr a long time,” said oneadministrator familiar with the depart¬ment. “There’s an effort to get thingsgoing right around there again.”In the office of public information, atleast five new staff members have beenhired this year, replacing several stafferswho left the office last June. Norris’ssuccessor, who has not yet been named,“will probably be an outsider,” accordingto one department member.“They’ll try to get someone who’s gqt hisown contacts,” the staffer said. “We’ve allgot our little clutches downtown, and weneed someone with fresh media contacts.” SG from 1Other students indicated that theythought the real reason for the demon¬stration was to provide an opportunity forthe SYL to “sell their newspapers anddoctrines,” and that the real issue was notthe actions of South Africa.There was a feeling among some in thecrowd that SG should not have adopted aresolution at last week’s meeting sup¬porting the rally.“Although the cause is good,” onestudent said, “Student Government has nobusiness dealing with an organizationsupporting the radical doctrines promotedby the SYL.”SYL members at the rally said theturnout had surpassed their expectations.Correction: It was incorrectly reportedin last Tuesday’s Maroon that the SGadmissions and curriculum committeehad drafted an alternative affirmativeaction proposal for the University. Overthe summer, a group of researchers fromSG and other organizations gathered data on affirmative action and minorityenrollment regulations and on the stepsthe University has taken to comply withthem. The committee plans to turn thematerial over to campus organizationsinvolved with problems of minorities andwomen.Reaction from 1An alumnae of the University, attendingSunday night’s reception for Nobel prize¬winner Milton Friedman, recalled her ownexperience with the deadly flu strainduring the world-wide flu epidemic in 1918-19.“Well, I had the swine flu in Germany in1918. One person in my family died. But Ithink I’m immune now.”Richard Davis, an art student, indicatedthat he would get vaccinated: “It’s im¬portant to keep your body whole,” heremarked.Dick Bailey, a student in the businessschool, took a more practical view: “Sure,I would—if its free.” UniverseS f*eot K« v- ; £7 Spe %"Spir ;-/■«*/ I//urn;n^ABORT/oivThe announcement of a speech ftnight by the Reverend E. Spencer pais a hoax. Spurious posters haveplaced around campus advertisspeech on “Spiritual Illumination nAbortion,” ostensibly sponsored £University Feminist Organization (’The fake pink signs duplicate thusual UFO posters. The counterianouncement has been repudiatedUFO.Don’t sit outhiselection!Vote for JOBS, LIPEACE, EQUALITY. . . an end to RACISM!in H mtd pnmne of o* vnpnWfifoa?IT IS IF IT’S YOUR TICKET.A Film Festival T-shirt is your way to get free admis¬sion to the premiere of Bruno Bozzeto’s Allegro NonTropo* at the Uptown Theatre, 4816 North Broadway,Tuesday, November 9 at 7 P.M. (Take the Howard "L"and get off at Lawrence.) It’s a great film, so order yourT-shirt today. (They’ll also be available at the door.)To find out about all the premieres at this year’s FilmFestival, just check the box in the order form andwe’ll send you a schedule, free. . .♦Translation: Somewhere between Yellow Sub- Amarine and Fantasia with the accent on Fellini. A CandidatesHEAR THE CANDIDATES — with Angela DavisOct. 23 7:30 p.m. at McCormick Place, Chicago $1Call 312 - RA 6-9359I’ve enclosed $3.70 per white shirt and $4.75 perblack plus 50c postage per shirt..MediumWhite Shirt(s) Black Shirt(s)Address..enclosed.:k if you’d like us to sendrte schedule Or cell 644-JCLOSELY BOUNDFed up withCarter-Ford”?you have aCHOICE!The Votethey can’t igncin Washingtonand Wall Stree<~ca HALL-TYNER CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE • 156 FIFTH AVENUE • NEW YORK, N Y 10010A hauntingly violent andnovel from"one of America’smost supremely talented andimportant authors”*RH1ADDtarnoNThe author of the best-selling The HawklineMonster reaches new heights of realism and sur¬realism; wit, magic and lyricism combine to makethis a classic Brautigan novel.LOTSo Km‘Hudson ReviewSIMON AND SCHUSTEROther Brautigan titles also available from Simon and Schuster:Revenge of the Lawn ■ The Abortion ■ The HawklineMonster ■ Loading Mercury With A Pitchfork ALLIED ARTS CORPORATION PRESENTSHARRY ZELZER, PRESIDENTONE PERFORMANCE ONLY - TOMORROWWednesday Eve., OCTOBER 20 8:00 P.M.ARIE CROWN THEATRE-McCormick PlaceTickets: $5.00, $6.00, $7.50, $10.00SUNDAY AFTERNOON, OCTOBER 24 ORCHESTRA HALL 3:00 “'.M.CHARLES ROSEN, PianisiALL BEETHOVEN RECITALSonata in C Major, Opus 53 “Waldstein”Sonata in E Major, Opus 109Sonata in A Flat Major, Opus 110Sonata in C Minor, Opus 111TICKETS: $5.00, $6.00, $7.50, $10.00 - Available at Allied Arts Corp.,20 N. Wacker Dr., Chicago, Orchestra Hall Box Office, and All Sears StoresSunday afternoonOctooer 31 ORCHESTRA HALL3:00 p.m.HermannIPrey ,/BaritoneALL SCHUMANN LEIDER RECITALTICKETS: $5.00, $6.00, $7.50, $10.00 Available at: Allied Arts Corp.,Wacker Dr„ Chicago, Orchestra Hall Box Office, and All Sears Stores.th* rhirAnn AAarrwi—Tuesday. October 19.1976—3obile cuisine-hot dogs and PolisBy SKYE FACKREwe are at the site of a nine year traditionJJL university of Chicago. This is the115e metal slightly battered truck wherents, professors and hospital workersbot dogs, hot tamales and Polish<?es. Inside the truck Tom Sakel isonions on a small white countertop.3 lady pokes her head over the sill,'jw^g-everything, and a cola.”For Tom this is a part time job. A largerfof his life is spent tending bar at theton. Tom met the owner of the lunchin the bar where he was persuaded tomustard and ketchup to his stock ofigs in behind the counter. On the truck,is not as much sustained interactionthe customers; no long involvedcreations over ice at the bottom of the; He passes the hot meat through thei from the steamer. Boxes litter thethe driver’s seat is torn, and cracksthe windows. Hard use, long years,business. Low overhead.It gets rather boring in the truckles. Tom’s view out the smallmetal opening encompasses antelephone and a tree. But nowappear through the window and___ spicks up.“Do you eat here often?” I ask the lady,feah.” She doesn’t like the competition’sjusages in the bookstore.Cindy Zezulak is about to have her firstsausage — and with everything,ak is a Bohemian name). “What arelittle things on here?” (“Greenher friend whispers.) First bite“You’ve gotta be kidding.” Second[te—“This is really very hot.” On thebite Cindy is down the street and Tomafter her, “Don’t you want anotherv’ “0h boy,” she yells back andaround the corner.More people are beginning to line up. “Polish sausages tend to burn a hole inmy stomach,” confided one fellow whoidentified himself as George Washington.“Quick, good, cheap” said a guy whoadmitted to being David Huston.One said— “Too greasy.”Another — “I like hot dogs. I’mAmerican.”“I’m leary of Polish sausages, I don’tknow what’s in them. I’m conscious of myby-products.”“This fellow here keeps my belly fullwhen I gotta work. I like that. ” About 90% of the people Tom sees areregulars. Others eye the truck and on animpulse, ask for hot dogs. The sausagetrucks are conveniently parked in front ofthe University Bookstore every weekdaybetween 11 and four.The man behind the mustard is JimmyGiros, a short man with few teeth. Tomdescribes him as a “Greek hillbilly whoknows how to make money.” He informedme that the sausages were ‘Vienna Polish’packaged by the Real Sausage Company.While he is speaking, some Chinese voices pass the window. This is truly an ethnicexperience.Another customer appears. Her name isLynn Johnson and her definitive statementis that “a hot Polish sausage is good for acold day”. As it approaches four, Tom isgetting ready to leave. “Its a mess inhere”, he states as he begins to clean up.“All this talking and you didn’t let me cutmy onions”. Someone else is approachingthe truck. Tom sighs. For some reason,you just can’t keep ’em away.NewsbriefsLibrary fines cutThe regular daily fine for overdue bookshas been reduced from 25c to 10c per day.Ms. Patricia Wilcoxen Hmh—Hum toe 10 ioc per day.Ms. Patricia Wilcoxen, head of cir¬culation services, explained that the staffmade the initiative to lower fines when itrealized that higher fines did notnecessarily motivate borrowers to returntheir overdue books any sooner.The present policy fines borrowers amaximum of five dollars for overduebooks checked out from the stacks incomparison to the previous maximum of$12.50 per book. Ms. Wilcoxen noted thatfaculty and students check out more booksper person at the University than personsat other universities, and some were cr.- .M.vu icicniunto the problems they were actuallycausing. The fines were reduced to ac¬commodate those who check out a largenumber of books, and whose delinquencyin returning them on time did not reallyinconvenience others.Ms. Wilcoxen stressed that peopleshould not take the return policy lessseriously since the daily charge has beenreduced. Fines for reserve material are Ton fn cnp^lfstill 25c per hour, and the fine for recalled ^ tu ojJcan.books continues to be $1 00 per day. * .v. OllUFinance at the University and now apartner in the Chicago law firm of Son-nenschein, Carlin, Nath and Rosenthal.Greenberg,. who earned his un¬dergraduate and law degrees at TheUniversity, is a past president of TheChicago Bar Association. Smithson exhibitGreenberg getsalumni postFrank Greenberg, senior partner of theChicago law firm of Greenberg, Keele,Lunn, and Arrowberg, has been electedpresident of The University of ChicagoLaw School Alumni Association for a two-year term. 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MarylandCOHN & STERN, Men’s Fashions Hyde Park Shopping Center, 55th & Lake ParkHOT POPPERMakes 4 Delicious iQuarts — Automatically | Barbara Jordan, Democraticcongresswoman from Texas, whoserabble-rousing rhetoric enlivened theotherwise lackluster proceedings at lastJuly’s Democratic convention, will speakon campus this Thursday.Jordan, on a campaign tour forpresidential candidate Jimmy Carter, hasconfirmed that die will appear at the LawSchool auditorium, Thursday at 3 p m. Hervisit is being jointly sponsored by the LawSchool Students Association and Studentsand Faculty for Carter. The Renaissance Society of tfcUniversity of Chicago begins the foseason with the works of the late RobJSmithson, a leading exponent ofejthwork.“Robert Smithson, Mirror/Salt Piect-Drawings” features an earthwork sho»Smithson created for The Andrew WhittMuseum of Art at Cornell University1969; selected drawings, 1968 to 1972; aajJtape recording of Smithson’s voice awas interviewed at Cornell.In the Cornell exhibit “MirrorDisplacement,” Smithson explores ticoncept of “site/non-site,” which invoivi“putting some land into a work of ajrather than putting a work of art on sonland.” The show, which had its opening^October 6, will run through November^The Society Gallery, Goodspeed Hall. *yyitrK/ ajndL :AJ/tUL 'fctrd&Li. £4/6'*' , .'JAGAJr jQcLdCAc. Jivich ttuL cUaJL4 tA* VW* cutOJrud. 1/owity. 4auA Qurnsjula mUL Mur M-. \J£,• 1 ^ . 1 y > 9/srxJuycL own dUfrnu-yidsi1,11 '-jalAJ) tJujA, oam I7* -mMldbsrrvas>v 1 tb dAiro*.JJfi ttUL yfijdtJL. I'4uxams ajd Ctrl1^ 1cornAtch/u A4L&ajLu4L , 'n+u. oi f <uh<a^ Jnnjyuy. JntcA 30 riajjA 1sM fjjynt A AJrii, st n$i—■ifll 'ij+U' toAv miAs -50 1riAAL- OaXaXcq,. Jit AtaUq ,a Li/LuHLuJi .1Q/nd- -iAUjL Uron t MIuaHj tJu, ft_ , rvM\wufy Pair DiamondsEast Washington St., Chicago, III. 6060255NameArirlrpRRCity Stafp Zip -jSchoolMONROEOISFr Mm., Thors., Fri.MO AM to MO PMTms., Wad.MO AM tt 5:30 PMSaturdayMO AM ta 5.-00 PM1050 EAST 81st STREET CHICAGO, IU. 60619 s^TPhone:873-1005 12 New to 540 PM fts. Cm, -yuc *50.06 Id* Uu^itL^IE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGOThe Committee on Social ThoughtandThe Department of Historyannounce a public lecture byPROF. WOLFGANG J. MOMMSEN *University of Dusseldorf(Author of "Max Weber und diedeutschePolitik")MAX WEBER ON THE UNITED STATES/ednesday, October 20,1976,4:00 P.M.riff Hall Room 1061025-35 E. 58th Street, r^,\v up until Oct. tflst. you con fly rrnmdtrip fromfffio1.uNeml.ounr for only *:S»50.That’s $106 less than (he youth fare you'd pay on any.wscheHuled airline. (From Chicago you pay $401 andv(.jii:t,)AIl you have to Ho is he under the ape of 24.There are no booking1 restrict ii^is. And no skim ping onlealrorservice. 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Those selected will be ableto provide a yaluabld service in the production\ i of n&ty>nal defense intelligence.V / The National Security Agency offers a v4rie^_,of challenging assignments for language majors. . . translation, transcription, area researchprojects to name a few Newly-hired linguistsreceive advanced training in their primarylanguages and can anticipate many years ofprofessional giowth within the NSA LanguageCareer Development ProgramIntellectual challenge is part of NS^ s languagetoo plus attractive surroundings in oursuburban Maryland headquarters salariesthat start at the GS-7 level for BA graduates .and all the usual benefits of FederalemploymentUnited States citizenship is requiredSchedule an NSA interview through y.ourPlacement OfficeNational Security AgencyFort George G Meade, Maryland 20755Attn M321EWARD!ON 10/15 -laie colored (brown & white)BULLTERRIER(6 mos. old)'ROSCOE"flushing Marks: A white spot on back,ply brown face. If -seen orfound callLauren at947-0137 or753-2249#3307An equal opportunity employe: m iHcnojn>3yHTeCBoe SHaHHehhoc TpaHHoroH3HKa!13***fit. -Z*-V 12-A Aren ORGAN RECITALSunday afternoonWithout ticketand without charge October 24, 1976 Four o’clockCelebrating the modernization and rebuilding of the organROCKEFELLER MEMORIAL CHAPEL 59th Street and Woodlawn AvenueTha Chicago Maroon—Tuaoday, October If, lf70—5Last spring Peter Cohn interviewed MiltonFriedman, professor in the economics departmentwho last week received the Nobel prize. The in¬terview was conducted as part of an article on theChicago school of economics, to appear in TheMaroon later this quarter. Friedman discusses thetradition of the Chicago school, the continuitiesand discontinuities, and the prospects for thefuture. Highlights of the interview are presentedbelow.Q Whom do you identify as the seminal figuresof the Chicago school of economics?A In the views about policy I would say thatwithout doubt the seminal figures were FrankKnight, Henry Simons, and, in a somewhat dif¬ferent sense, Jacob Viner. From the point of viewof scientific attitudes and approaches, Vinerplayed a more important role relative to theothers, and also that goes back to a much earliertime, to the time when James Laurence Laugh!inin 1890 became the first chairman of the depart¬ment and he insisted on having a broad range ofscientific and policy views represented on thedepartment. He brought in Thorstein Veblen. Hebrought in Wesley Mitchell who started the em¬phasis on quantitative and empirical work. Youcan go from that date on to a continued series ofpeople in the department who tended to stresseconomic theory as a tool of analysis which reallvhad a role to play in analyzing what was going onin the real world and was not simply an in¬tellectual game, and who also emphasized thetesting of theoretical conceptions by statisticalmethods. The big move in this direction probablycame in the nineteen twenties with Henry Schultz,who, as an empirical statistical economist playeda very important role in that aspectFrom that point of view, Paul Douglas alsoplayed a very important role because PaulDouglas was a very important figure in the ap¬plication of empirical data to economic issues.The so-called Cobb-Douglas function, which waswidely known, was an empirical productionfunction that he fitted with somebody else. Hisstudies on employment in the business cycle andpurchasing power were along the same lines. NowI mention him because that shows the interestingcontrast between the scientific approach of theChicago school on the one hand, and its policyapproach. From a policy point of view. PaidDouglas. Frank Knight and Henry Simons were atodds with (me another, Paul Douglas was verymuch of an interventionist. He would haveregarded himself as more nearly a socialist than apromoter of free enterprise, although I have toadd that he was by no means a central planner. Hehad a great deal of respect and understanding forthe free market, but surely no one would haveclassified him as predominately in the samecategory as Henry Simons in his promotion oflaissez faire and free enterprise. On the otherhand, from the scientific point of view, PaulDouglas had more in common with Jacob Vinerand Henry Schultz in the attitudes towardseconomics as a scientific discipline than he hadwith Frank Knight or Henry Simons.Q In other words, the methodology of positiveeconomics does not commit one to a policyviewpoint?A It quite clearly does not. I remember in my ownpersonal experience as a graduate student beingimpressed by Wesley Mitchell, who, as you know,after he left the University of Chicago went out toBerkeley and wrote his great 1913 volume onbusiness cycles, then went to Columbia and laterfounded the National Bureau of EconomicResearch. When I was a graduate student atColumbia, in the nineteen thirties, and I laterworked at the National Bureau when WesleyMitchell was the director of it, I very wellremember his emphasizing in class whendiscussing this that before you could say whatought to be done, you would have to answer thepositive, scientific question of how would such andsuch a change effect the situation. It's silly to say Iwant to do Z until I know that X will produce Z.And so the scientific approach is completely in¬dependent of ideology. Let me give you a moreextreme example. One of the people at theUniversity of Chicago in the nineteen forties wasOscar Lange. Lange, as you may know wasoriginally a Polish economist - a very greateconomist - but also a communist. He became theeconomic representative of Poland to the UnitedNations after the United Nations was founded.Then he wait back and became a Polish citizenand then be became, I don’t know if he was theeconomics minister, but at any rate he became aminister in the Polish government.Yet from ascientific point of view, Oscar Lange was perfectlycompatible with the economics department at theUniversity of Chicago and Oscar Lange’s work hashad a considerable influence on the developmentof economic thought.Q Although George Stigler has pointed out thateconomic training inevitably biases one.A Of course it does. It doesn’t bias one. I don’tthink that’s right. It inevitably leads one to havecertain views. No, but that applies to Oscar Langebecause Oscar Lange was politically a communist Maroon interviewFriedman discusibut, in his economic policies he was very differentfrom the ordinary communist. Oscar Lange, alongwith another economist, Abba Lemer, who wasnever a communist, but in politics would beregarded as to the left, wrote a book, “TheEconomics of Socialism,” which is a very im¬portant book. But what is their approach? Theright way to run a socialist economy is by marketmeans. In fact, what their proposal came to is thata socialist economy should play at capitalism, thatit should instruct the managers of its enterprisesto maximize profit, that it should not interferewith prices, that it should let the market deter¬mine prices. So you see here again, the scientifictraining as an economist effects very much thekinds of policies that seem appropriate regardlessof the poliltical complexion of the person involved.Q Isn’t it true that the political and social goalsthat a person has will influence his scientificapproach. With monetarism, for example. TheKeynesians have certain normative goals whichinfluence their attitudes as far...A I have the following problem with that. I knowthis is a problem with apparent difficulty. There isno doubt, as an empirical fact, that if you pick Mr.X, Y and Z, and you tell me what their policy viewsare, and what their political views are, most of thetime I will be able to tell you without knowing inadvance what their scientific views are in thisarea. And yet the paradox is that there is nological connection between the two. You could be abeliever in governmental intervention into theeconomy, and that it is desirable to have finetuning, yet be a monetarist. What would thatmean? You would say that the most effective toolfor carrying out your policy would be control overthe quantity of money. And then there is no in¬consistency between that scientific view, and afterall, the issue of whether a change in the quantity ofmoney will more persistently be related to achange in income than let us say a change ingovernment spending is a scientific question.That’s not a policy question. So it’s something of apuzzle why it is that you have had the particularcombination of policy and scientific views that youhave had. I believe myself that there are twodifferent explanations. One is purely accidental,the personalities of the people that have been onthe different sides. The other is more fun¬damental, and it has to do with the time per¬spective of people. I believe, in general, that youwill find that those people in favor of a very activerole of government in the economy, of in¬tervention, of a fine tuning approach and so on,are people who tend to put great emphasis on thenear future and little emphasis on the long future.They tend to have a very short time perspective.Their internal discount rate is very high. On theother hand, those people who tend to put a greatdeal of emphasis on economic freedom, onkeeping government out of the picture and so on,are people who tend to have a long time per¬spective. And the reason for that is because ifyou’re looking for the near future you cam muchmore readily say what will be the effect of aparticular government intervention. Because youneed to look only at the direct and immediateeffect. You can say “Well, what will happen in thelong term? We’ll let that take care of itself, nextyear we’ll get around to that.” On the other hand,if you have an attitude of looking at what’s gonnahappen in the longer term, well then you’ll have tolook at these more distant effects and then you willbecome impressed about how difficult it is tocontrol them and how much you ought to rely onthe natural forces of the market place. Similarly,if you look at fiscal verses monetary effects, ingeneral fiscal effects are more direct and im¬mediate. At least the direct effects. Whereasmonetary effects go through a longer channel andtake a longer time to make themselves effective.And that’s one reason why I think you have thiskind of relationship between time perspective andattitudes towards social policy and also scientificeffects.Q What do you see as the major continuities of theChicago school and how do you see that it haschanged since the thirties or the forties ?A Well, you can both see continuities anddramatic change The continuity is clear. Thecontinuity is emphasis on individual freedom as aprimary goal of social policy. That’s the clearcontinuity If you take Frank Knight, HenrySimons, and if you take today George Stigler, YaleBrozen, and myself. The one thing that is clearlycommon throughout is the emphasis on individualfreedom as a primary goal of economic activity.Another thing that is in fact common at thescientific level is the emphasis on the effects ofmonetary policy in the economy, on the Im¬portance of monetary policy, and on the un¬desirability of inflation. Those are all common. If you come to differences, you will find very greatdifferences in detailed policy. If you want to seethese differences very sharply, you compareHenry Simons’ “Positive Program for LaissezFaire” published in the nineteen thirties with, forexample, my own “Capitalism and Freedom.”The difference is that first of all, Henry Simonswas writing and forming his ideas at a time whengovernment spending in this country amounted toabout ten percent of the national income. He wastherefore willing to contemplate increases in thescope of government more readily than we havebeen willing to, when now government spendingamounts to more than 40 percent of the nationalincome. For example, if you consider the problemof what are called “technical monopolies,” thingslike telephones and so on. In those cases there areonly choices among evils. You can have privateunregulated monoply, or you can have govern¬ment regulated monopoly, or you can have twoveffects*deal of iW!favor, (ferent,rateatitheithe]changjiourrelaareadiffeSimons jSimons |today]viewed!i igfyI think insofar as the Chicago schinfluenced policy, it's been muchithe profession at large, on the neattitudes, than it has been by idwho have gone through the policyjto Washington or not.government ownership and operation And HenrySimons was inclined to go for governmentownership and operation. Today, we would beinclined to go for unregulated monopoly. And thereason for that is twofold. One, as I say, is thedifference in the size of the government, when thegovernment is wily ten percent of the economy,you can more readily am template an expansion init without being worried about what kind of effectit would have on human freedom as opposed towhen government is already 40 percent. 1116 otherreason is that we have had more experience thanHenry Simons had with the consequences ofgovernment owned monopoly, particularlythrough the nationalization experiments in GreatBritain. And these have pretty well demonstratedthat that’s a failure. It’s an interesting thing.Henry Simons had observed the effect of govern¬ment-regulated monopoly through the ICC and thevarious state public utility boards, and that hadbeen very unsuccessful. So he was inclined tomove to one of those three evils that we hadn’ttried yet. Now, we have seen the effects of allthree of them, and we are inclined to say that thelesser of the evils is unregulated monopoly. That’san important difference.Now, another important difference, in the areaof overall policy, is that Henry Simons would havebeen in favor of a greater degree of discretion inmonetary policy. Henry Simons wrote a veryfamous article on rules verses discretion inmonetary policy. But the rule that he wanted tofollow was the rule of a stable price level. And hewanted to leave the monetary authorities with agreat deal of discretion provided they werecommitted to achieving a stable price level. Theresult of the studies which have been made sincethat date would show that the effect of monetarychange on prices have a long delay. It takes aboutS—The Chicago Maroon—Tuesday, October 19,1974hicago economicsof Henry[that Henry[equality ofus wouldtax, hetax ase. Andof highlyof view. Weeen that theit is highlyerratic andsame peoplet, I think wes also seen, Ieffect of 30direction oft state whichtake govern-»ostensibleamounts topt standards,f to the poor, going to happen when you pass a law is not goingto depend on what your purposes are, but how thepolitical market and the political structure isgoing to work. For example, you can set up aninterstate commerce commission supposedly inorder to control the monopolistic railroads, andit’s going to turn out that the railroads will controlit. Well similarly, Aaron had a good deal of in¬fluence in causing a lot of us, and most par¬ticularly in recent years George Stigler, to movein the direction of the positive analysis of politics,parallel to the positive analysis of economics. Andone of the outstanding developments in those lineswas George Stigler’s article in the Journal of Lawand Economics entitled “Director’s Law.” NowDirector’s law, which George named for Aaron ashaving been enunciated by him, was that govern¬ment economic policies are directed at benefitingthe middle class, at the expense of both the verypoor and the very rich. And the political logic ofthat is very clear. Because 'after all, you have ahundred percent of the people. You need, as itwere, 51 percent of the vote. There is no need whythat 51 percent should come from one end of theeconomic spectrum rather than the other, andthere is a very good reason why it should not comefrom the bottom. Because the ones at the bottomof the political spectrum are also likely to be themost inefficient and the most important in gettingpolitical measures through. The poeple who aresuccessful in the middle classes and in theeconomic world are also likely to be much moreeffective at politics, and the result is that youform, as it were, a majority which extends fromthe lower-middle class up to the upper-middledass. This leaves at the one extreme the smallminority who don’t have many votes but havemuch money and at the other extreme a largenumber who may have the votes but who don’thave the political acumen to make it effective.And that’s been the case over and over again.Social security is a marvelous example of aprogram which benefits the middle classes at theexpense of the people at the extremes. And youcan find many other programs which are the sameway. I think the development of looking at politicsfrom a positive rather than from a normativepoint of view has played a large role in the shiftaway from Henry Simons’ egalatarianism. inparticular.Q So is it safe to say that shifts in thinking havecome about largely as a response to developmentswithin the economy?A Well, not so much the developments in theeconomy as developments in what we think to beour understanding of the economy, on the onehand, and of the polity on the other. These arescientific developments that I was mostlyspeaking of. Presumably you could now use thisapproach, let us say for example on the positiveanalysis of politics. You can go back and examinethe interstate commerce commission of theeighteen eighties or nineties the same way. So it’snot that the economy or the politics have changedso much, though that has played a role too, Iagree, as the fact that government has exploded.This has, on the one hand, caused a much greaterconcern on all our parts about how do you limit itso as to preserve human freedom, and, on theother hand, has given a great deal of empiricalevidence as to what the results of such policiesare. In fact, from that point of view, this is arespect that the Chicago school is in much less of aminority than it ever used to be. Today, is thereanybody who has a good thing to say for any ofthese programs? Is there anybody who doesn’trealize that the welfare system is a mess, whodoesn’t recognize that the interstate commercecommission hasn’t been perverse from the point ofview of preserving competition, or that the FCChas been dominated by the networks, and so ondown the line?is that thatit figure inotioned ;she is myhut he waswas a veryi had a veryourN® Simon’sNopments infrom thepoliticalof view ofM yourself“and thenIJ lets getpoliticalpoint oflw»nt aboutactually is Q Would you say that the balance of the professionin the post-war period has definitely shifted fromthe neo-Keynesian...A There’s no doubt about that. But again, Iwouldn’t want to take the credit for that to theChicago school. It has shifted because the obviousempirical evidence has been consistent with thewort of the Chicago school. The question alwaysarises of what has been the influence of theChicago School, or of a person, or of somebodyelse. And 1 always say thaT the influence on in¬tellectuals is very much less through persuadingpeople than through keeping options open, makingalternatives available. Very few people arepersuaded by argument. The real persuasioncomes, the real effect comes, by keeping alter¬natives available when the right circumstancesarise.And let me illustrate that very concretely in aparticular case of exchange rates determination, floating exchange rates versus fixed exchangerates. People at Chicago going back, this goesback [Joyed Mintz who was another figure in the‘Chicago school in the nineteen thirties, to HenrySimons, both of them were proponents of flexibleexchange rates. In the post-war period others of usat Chicago were proponents of flexible exchangerates. The profession as a whole shifted a greatdeal away from fixed exchange rates, but wedidn’t persuade any government officials, wedidn’t persuade any central bankers. But whathappened was that when the fixed exchange ratesystem got into a crisis, the fact that there hadbeen so much work and writing done on flexibleexchange rates meant that that alternative wasreadily available to turn to. If that work hadn’tbeen done, then something would still have had tobe done, but I don’t know what it would have been.But there is no reason to suppose that it is flexibleexchange rates that would have been picked up.Again, if you take the welfare area, some of usdeveloped the idea of negative income taxes. Wedidn’t persuade anybody, but now that the welfaresystem is in such an obvious mess you have got tofind some alternative and that alternative is lyingaround. This goes back to your main point. In sofar that there has been a distinct shift within theprofession, it’s been as much because the factshave made it necessary to change views and theChicago school approach has been around to bepicked up, as it has been the direct persuasiveeffect of the Chicago school on other members ofthe profession.Q How would you describe the influence that theChicago School has had on the actual formulationof policy. How has the flow ofpeople from Chicagointo the government channels over the years andhow has the way of thinking at the high levels ofthe government changed?A That’s an extremely difficult question to answerand I don’t know that I can do it. Because I think,insofar as the Chicago school has influenced policyit’s been much more by its influence on theprofession at large, on the news media, on publicattitudes, than it has been by identifiable in¬dividuals who have gone through the policy mill,who have gone Washington or not.One of Frank Knight’s favorite stories, and onewhich is relevant to this, is the story of a breed ofducks that fly in the sky in a “V”, with a leader infront of them. And every now and then the ducksbehind the leader veer off from the line they’vebeen flying in and fly in a different direction. Theleader keeps flying along on his lonesome until hehappens to look in back of him and happens todiscover that the ducks aren’t there anymore.Then he rushes as fast as he can to get around infront of the V and become the leader again.Well, I think that’s really the role of the peoplewho are in Washington. The people who areregarded as most influential really aren’t mostinfluential, except in the sense of the duck who isin front of the “V”. Then the real influence is,exerted by the people who have been changingideas, which is like the ducks in back moving off.So it’s very hard to answer your question in termsof identifying people in the flow to Washington. Ireally can’t do it.Q What was your reaction to the anti-big govern¬ment rhetoric of some of the Democratic can¬didates in the primary?A But what is that reflecting? That is reflecting awidespread tax-payer revolt. Now the interestingthing is that the rhetoric on the one handresponsive to the idea that somehow or another wehave to keep down government spending, on theother hand it continues to repeat the standardtheme we need public employment programs. Ifyou take the kind of thing that Hubert Humphreyhas proposed into law, the Humphrey-HawkinsBill, for guaranteed government employment, it’svery hard to fit that into the field of free markets.Q And is usually accompanied by some brand ofthe “newpopulism”...A That has to do with this cultural lag. I believethat the candidates probably both Republican andDemocratic, are responding to probably not whatare 'the real concerns and Issues of the peopletoday, but what they decided were the real con¬cerns ten, 15, or 20 years ago. I think Washingtonis a very artificial, isolated place and that is isvery slow to recognize changes in public attitudes.Now maybe this is just wishful thinking, but Ithink the public at large is much more disaffectedwith governmental policy than any of the anti-government candidates have been recognizing intheir rhetoric. In any event, I think one oughtn’tpay much attention to the campaign rhetoric. Itreally is not very important.Fundamentally, what’s important is what’s happening on the purely intellectual level, to theideas that are being absorbed, and spread,developed, in part by the younger people who aregoing to college. Hie people of your age and yourfellows. And here it’s not so clear what you cansay, because there are mixed strands.There certainly is on the one hand an enormousamount of disillusionment with all a current in¬stitutions, whether it be governmental or private,whether it be the private university, the privatecorporation, or the government. And it’s not clearwhat comes out of this. One strand of thinking isauthoritarian in character. It’s essentially kickout the bums and put in the noble people. Thegreat popularity of a Ralph Nader is testimony tothat strand of thinking. Another strand of thinkingis purely neolistic. It’s destroy, and who knowswhat will follow but it can’t be any worse, withouteven thinking about it. There is also a strand ofblinking that is libertarian. But I cannot think thatit is a valid judgement of what’s happening in theworld of ideas to say that the libertarian strand isbecoming the dominant one.Q. We have discussed the close relationship bet¬ween the empirical developments and ideas. Don'tsome of the longer run structural changes going onin the economy call into question the usefulness ofthe free market idea. The best example 1 can thinkof is the need to control technology because of thefragility of our natural environment.A You need a standard of comparison. This bringsme back, if you’ll pardon me, again to John StuartMill. John Stuart Mill, in 1848, in talking about avery different topic, was talking about theargument then between capitalism and com¬munism. And he said that the problem is thatpeople make a false comparison betweencapitalism as it is and communism as it migh\ be.What you ought to do is either compare capitalismas it might be with communism as it might be, orcapitalism as it is with communism as it is.The same thing happens here. People comparethe problems of the present not with the problemsof the past, but with a romantic conception of sortof the Garden of Eden. To the past as it seems tohave been. But the plain fact is that if you go backto the early days of the Industrial Revolutionthat’s when they had the real outpouring of smoke,dirt, and filth, because at that time we didn’t haveenough knowledge to cope with it. Again, one ofthe great developments of the twentieth centurywas the shift from the burning of coal to the use ofelectricity, a far cleaner, less polluting substance.The shift from the horse to the automobile. I don’tmean to say that all shifts go in the one direction.But again, take another aspect of the same kind oftrend that you’re telling people that free en¬terprise may have been all right in an earlier,simpler days when you had small enterprisesBut with the development of technology andmammoth enterprises how can you have freecompetition today? Well, here again, thedevelopments of technology have worked in bothdirections. The improvements in transportationhave meant that you can get competition over amuch broader geographical area The im¬provement in communication means that you canknow about what prices are over a broader area,you can make deals over a much wider area. Iwould say in the main in that area too, thetechnological developments have tended to in¬crease the possibilities of competition. They haveled to larger firms in an absolute sense, but firmsthat are smaller relative to the size of the effectivemarket within which competition can take place. IThere is a similarly in the pollution area. Somedevelopments have undoubtedly led to greater*?,problems in maintaining the environment. Butother developments have come in the otherdirection I recognize that in both the nineteenthcentury and today, it is an appropriate publicconcern, that this is part of a proper capitalism. Aproper capitalism requires that individuals beresponsible for the costs they impose on otherpeople. And get the credit for any benefits theyimpose on other people. And that’s where thepollution problem arises.It’s the problem of trying to specify propertyrelations in such a way that you can hold peopleresponsible for any costs that they impose onothers. That’s an appropriate activity of govern¬ment I’m not questioning that.It’s much easier to conceive of a centralgovernment controlling a backward country thanit is to conceive of its controlling a really advancedcountry. Because in a backward stagnant country,first of all it’s simpler when the central govern¬ment has to operate by command. You can un¬derstand the tsar running medievel Russia. Todayit’s much different for the communists to run evenRussia. Russia is a relatively backward country'.The common notion that somehow or another it’srun by central command is not true. It’s runmostly by market mechanisms. There is no otherway that it can be run. So I don’t believe there ismuch to that I believe that that’s purerationalizationThe same kind of people who in the nineteenthcentury were in favor of centralized governmentare today in favor of centralized government forthe same reason. In the nineteenth century, theycited technological developments as the reasonwhy you had to have it, today they’re citingtechnological developments I don’t believe it. Ibelieve that it’s an excuse and not a reasonThe Chicago Maroon—Tuesday, October it, 197t—7CalendarTuesdayMeetingsSG Assembly Meeting: 7:30*9 pm Ida NoyesTheatre, third floorUC Science Fiction Club: Meeting at 7:30pm — Ida Noyes Hall.Minority and Women Lecture SeriesCommittee: 6:00 pm. Sun Parlor, Ida Noyes.Purpose will be to determine specific topicsand speakers in adherence to the theme of"Human Rights: The Problems ofDiscrimination in America." All interestedare welcome to attend. "The International Hour". Special featureon "Economic Development in the People’sRepublic of China." 9*10 pm.All-Night Jazz: Every weeknight starting at ‘10 pm. Tonight Ted Panken features themusic of and interviews sax and woodwindplayer John Stubblefield.DOC: "Cry of the City”, 7:30 pm; “CrissCross”, 9:15 pm, CobbFestival of Chicago Comedy: An eveningwith Shelley Berman. Moderator D.Nicholas Rudall. Man del Hall, 8:30 pm.$3.00 T. E. Thompson, University of Virginia:will offer a lecture sponsored by the dept, ofBiochem. Cummings 101,4 pm. US-China People's Friendship ^Chicago, U of C committee: organs*meeting. Ida Noyes Hall 7:30 pm.Entertainment Hnnijimtariwi flmitwr ffrmtnay WYLD^text editing and submitting compute,, j '3:30 pm. RI180. 1DOC: "Pandora’s Box," plus a Chaplinshort "Caught in Cabaret" 8:00 LecturesWHPK88.8FM:WednesdayMeetings Morning FM Rock: Every weekday mor¬ning, 6 am-noon. Lou Feliz features themusic of Chicago artists from 6-9 am. Author Gene Wolfe: An informal disv,UMof Science Fiction. Sponsored by Uf\v|8:30 pm, Ida Noyes. ™University Feminist Organisation:"Passing the E.R.A. in Illinois", DianeWallace. Blue Gargoyle Library, 7:30 p.m.KI-AIKIDO Club: 6:00 • 7:00, Bartlett Gym.New members always welcome.YEARBOOK: staff meeting in Ida NoyesLounge for all Cap and Gown members, 7:30pm.Hebrew Classes:6:30 pm Beginners Hebrew, Hillel House8:00 pm Advanced Hebrew, Hillel HouseLecture-demonstration and recital:Edward Mondello, University organist.12:15 pm. Rockefeller Memorial Chapel.“Art as Technology in Sub-Saharan Africaand Southern California." Arnold G. Rubin,Dept, of Art History, University of Calif., 4pm, HM130. _ University of Chicago ChristianFellowship: meets at 7:16, East Lounge, IdaNoyes Hall for all students desiringChristian fellowship.Computation Center Seminar: FILEBOL, adataset manipulation and report-generatingutility, 3:30 pm. RI 180.Hillel House.12:00 pm. Students for Israel Meeting, Prof.Zev Klein speaking. Bag Lunch. HillelHouse7:00 pm. Midrash Class. Hillel House8:00 pm. Israeli Folk Dancing, AssemblyRoom, International House.8:30 pm. Class in Symbols & Ritual ofJewish Life Cycle and Festivals.Hillel House.Duplicate Bridge: 7:00 pm, Ida NoyesFrench class: beginner or intermed.Crossroads Student Center, 5621 S.Blackstone Ave. 7:30 pm. $5 for students, $8for non-students. Sadlowski Interview: Michael Hoff in¬terviews Ed Sadlowski, Dist. 31 ExecutiveDirector and candidate for president df theUnited Steel Workers, and Oliver Mon¬tgomery, USW Vice President for HumanAffairs, on "Political Forum," 9 pm. “Studies on a Newly paPolypeptide Hormone": Ronald VU<UJLilly Laboratories, 4:30, coffee” *7Cumin 101.Studies iColloquium: "The Psychological Backing ofLinguistic Currency," James McCawley, U.of C. Linguistics Dept. 4 pm, Beecher Hall101. Department of Microbiology _VUUIIcontrol of bacterial cell division by thegene and on recombinant plasmRandall Gayda. 3:00 pm, CLSC 1012:30 pm, CLSC 850."Aspects of Publishing: Editing," John G.Ryden, Editor-in-Chief, University ofChicago Press. 8:00 pm, Regenstein Library,tin. A-ll. Hillel House:Yiddish Folk Song Choral Group, 2:30pm IReading and Discussion of Martin BubJMoses, 4:00 pm.Country Dancers: Folkdancing of England,Scotland, and Scandinavia taught eachweek. Refreshments served. Beginnerswelcome. 8-10 pm Ida Noyes. Woodward Court Lecture: "Re^Developments in the Study of CuJbDavid M. Schneider, Professor, Depa.of Anthropology. 8:30 pm, Woodward!FOCC: editorial cartooning and politicalsatire with Bill Maudlin. Bergman, $2, 8:30pm.EntertainmentWHPK88.8FM.The Chinese Hour a weekly programproduced by the Chinese BroadcastingCommittee on various aspects of NewChina. 5:30 pm. English Class for foreign women free ofcharge: 2-3 pm. Crossroads Student Center,5621 S. Blackstone. Babysitting provided.Social hour follows from 3-4 pm.The Laura Spelman Rockefeller MemorialCarillon: Robert Lodine, UniversityCarillonneur, will give a recital. Personswishing a tour of the carillon and clavierroom should be in the Chapel Office no laterthan 12:10. The Renaissance Society: "Spiral Jetty"film by Robert Smithson. 8 pm, HarperlFree.ThursdayMeetingsDebate Society: Meeting 8:00 pm, in¬struction 7:00 pm. Ida Noyes. CEF: "How Tasty Was My Littlechman," Cobb, $1,8:30 pm.FOCC: Performances by Today’sChicago comics including Mayor Daley/"™’Levy, Milton the Free Market Friietc. Call 753-4113 to audition.The Pub, Ida Noyes. 8:30 pm.MAROON CLASSIFIEDS CANMAKE YOU A BUNDLE!DATES TO RUNNAME, ADDRESS, PHONECHARGE: UC PEOPLE50tf per line40tf per line to repeat NON-UC PEOPLE75tf per line60tf per line to repeatThere are 30 spaces per line, including all letters,spaces, and punctuation marks. Circle all lettersto be capitalized. c’v|h(ttI is)aALL ADS PAID IN ADVANCEHEADING (our regular ones free, yours$l per 15 spaces) !9idlenJetid|J0\neinkaniyoiIwh•—The Chicago Maroon—Tuesday, October 19,1976MAC’S WINDOW TELLS YOUHOW TO MAKE HIM WORK!MAC lets you make cash withdrawalsfrom your checking or savings account.And if you qualify for a line of credit,MAC will even give you a cash advancewithout seeing a single loan officer.MAC loves money, too! You candeposit cash or checks into your sav¬ings account, checking account, orboth. Simple insert your deposit ina sealed envelope in MAC’S depository,and he’ll give you a deposit receiptimmediately.MAC transfers your moneyautomatically—from savings tochecking, from checking to savings,or from your Line of Crecjit into yourchecking account.MAC accepts payments on notes andloans. 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On your next visit to‘ink, stop at our Personal Banking Depart-end pick up your MAC Card application.you’ve done business with MAC, you’llwhy he’s called MAC the MACnificent. HYDE PARK BANKAND TRUST COMPANYMAC CARDUnlocks all the services of MAC,the friendly 24-hour bankerYour MAC Card is the keyto the Hyde Park Bank24 hours a day!V-ball beatsNorth CentralThe university women’s volleyball cameout strong at last Wednesday’s tri-meet,losing to Loyola but beating North Central,runner-up in last year’s state meet.Chicago opened the meet losing a closematch to Loyola, 7-15,15-1,15-12, but NorthCentral also fell to Loyola, so what shouldhave been the match for the meet, turnedout to be a contest for second place.Laura Silveus’s excellent service wasreinforced at the net by solid setting andsome good spikes and Chicago went intothe lead. They held on to a 12-3 score, but aseries of failed blocks and bad control putthe Maroons on the defensive against aNorth Central rally. Fortunately, the drivewas cut off by the 8-minute bell at a scoreof 14-10.The same pattern held through most ofthe second game, and again Chicago hungon to win.The win and loss brought the varsity’srecord to 3-4 so far; tonight’s game againstOlivet-Nazarene could put them into aposition of holding their own. The game isaway, at 7:00 p.m. By FRANK MERRIWELLThe University cross country team wentthrough their toughest week of the seasonlast week and came out with colors flying.With three meets in the space of theweek Maroon harriers upped their seasonrecord to 7-4 and finally got team membersout of their vacation and onto the course.The week started out two Saturdays agowith a trip to the Spring Arbor In¬vitational. The Maroons placed no one onthe top ten but managed to fill out the teenswell enough to take third in the seven teammeet. Hie following Tuesday Chicago tookon a tough squad from Bradley and werepretty solidly beaten.But by the next Saturday, the team wasready. Faced with a triple meet against St.Xavier, North Park and North Central’s Bteam, Maroon harriers came through tobeat them all, with ten men coming inWomen’s athletic advisory board meetsThursday will be a big day for women’sathletics at the University.The main event will be the first meetingof the year of the Women’s Athletic Ad¬visory Board. The board is made up of 18alumna who were former women’s athelticassociation members . The Board wasformed last year to serve as the women’scounterpart to the men’s graduate Orderof the C.The board will meet in the earlyafternoon and will be followed by an open10—The Chicago Maroon—Tuesday, October 19, 1776 Xavier, a 16-38 win over North Park, aiwas good enough for a surprise 22beating of North Central B.Needless to say the team was pleaswith its outing. “It took awhile 1everyone to come around,” Schustersai“but we’ve got a good team and by titime the conference meet comes arounwe’ll be sitting nice.”Harriers take tri-meetunder 23 minutes for the four mile course.John Schuster and Jim Thvedt led thefield taking first and second overall.Taking the pace from the North Centralfront runners they pulled away at the 2M>mile mark and had the course all tothemselves. With about a mile and aquarter to go, Schuster pulled away fromThvedt and counter blazed in alone withthe winning time of 20:43. It was a personalbest for the fourth-year team captain andhis first overall win. Thvedt cruised in sixseconds later to take second with his besttime ever.They were followed by Pete Smith, in at21:04, Paul Hart, who almost caught alagging North Central finisher at the end ofhis 21:30 run, and Joe Knaup, rounding upthe Chicago scoring with a 21:38 finish.This fine display of running netted theMaroon harriers a 20-35 victory over St.house for WAA members and enteringfreshmen women at 3:oo p.m. Thursdaywill also be the opening day for thewomen’s field hockey and volleyballteams. The hockey team will take onNorthwestern at 4:00 at Stagg Field. Thevolleyball team, which made it to the firstround of the state tournament last year,will play their first home game againstLake Forest in Ida Noyes gym at 7 p.m. Coach Ted Haydon was also happy'the way the season was progressing.!will be running his team next week atSUnited States Track and Field FederatiNational Meet at Madison, Wisconsin!give them a chance to race at six milesjwill be their last long race beforeMidwest Conference meet November 6.“We have a solid team,” theopined, “and we should get a fairly ispot in the conference. ”UC VARSITY SCOREBOARDFootball:Maroons 9 Lake Forest 6Tennis:Maroons 6 North Central 1Cross-Country:Maroons 20 St. Xavier 35Maroons 16 North Park 38Maroons 22 North Central B 34Maroons edge ForrestersBy DAN MANSUETOThe University of Chicago Maroonscame through with a 9-6 homecomingvictory over Lake Forest College Satur¬day, proving the old adage that a gooddefense is the best offense.The Maroon defense not only held LakeForest to six points, but scored Chicago’sonly touchdown and forced the turnoverswhich set up the field goal that eventuallyproved to be the winning margin.It was, the first win in conference com¬petition since Chicago beat Wisconsin 7-6in 1936 towards the end of Maroon Big Tencompetition.The first big play of the game came inthe middle of the first quarter whenMaroon defensemen Kim Johnsonrecovered a Lake Forest fumble at theLake Forest 32 yard line. But on the secondplay after gaining possession of the ball,the Maroon offense fumbled away theexcellent field position provided for themby the defense.The defense again came up with the bigplay, this time giving the offense fieldposition they didn’t need to improve uponto score. After Lake Forest had regainedpossession, the Maroons quickly forcedthem into a punting situation. Completelyoverwhelming the Lake Forest offensiveline, Chicago sacked the Lake Forestpunter before he could get the punt off,giving the Maroons the ball on the LakeForest 14 yard line.But the Maroon offense could only movethe ball three yards in three plays, and had to settle for a 25 yard Scott Jansen fieldgoal, his first three pointer of the year.With 5:08 left in the first half, the defensecompleted the Maroon scoring. PeterWendel intercepted Lake Forest quar¬terback Dan Cantanzaro’s throw at the 10yard line and had a spectacular 90 yardscramble for the touchdown. The pointafter attempt failed and the half endedwith the score the University of Chicago 9,Lake Forest 0.It was the first pick-off of the year for themuch maligned Maroon secondary, whichturned into a superb game. Wendell, whohad not been playing in the secondary forthe Beloit game, was moved over for thisone and made two interceptions. DickRubesch also played a fine game, battingdown many a good pass.While the defense was having one of it’sbest games, the Maroon offense washaving one of it’s worst. Gaining only 104yards in the game, they were never able tosustain a drive. They made only seven firstdowns, and never made more then twoconsecutively. Mike Giblin was theMaroons leading rusher, averaging 3.0yards a carry for 40 yards. QuarterbackJohn Vail carried the ball eight times,losing 36 yards. These statistics indicatenot so much an ineptness on the part of theMaroon rushers, but but rather a failure onthe part of the offensive line.Late in the third quarter, Lake Forestbegan the only offensive drive of the gameagainst an overworked and tiring Maroondefense. Beginning at their own 37 yardline, Lake Forest marched to theUniversity of Chicago 13 yardline wherehalf back George Latto ran the ball in for atouchdown. But the Chicago defensive linerose again, stopping the Lake Forest at¬tempt at running the ball in for the con¬version, and the score remained Chicago 9,Lake Forest 6.The defense then went on to keep LakeForest from scoring during the remaining14:56 of the fourth quarter. After LakeForest was stopped, for the last time insideUniversity of Chicago territory, the of¬fense finally helped out by gaining twofirst downs to run out the clock.While the defense’s big plays were John Vail prepares to loft one down field.impressive, the defensive line's play wasevery bit as instrumental in the victory.Holding Lake Forest to 6 points and 144yards rushing was especially remarkableconsidering they were on the field most ofthe game. But acccording to linebackerSteve Stwora, the fact that they wereoverworked didn’t bother the Maroondefensive linemen. “We knew we weren’tsupposed to be on the field so long, but welove to hit. We were very psyched up forthis game and we were ready to go out andhit.”Predictably, head coach Bob Lombardiwas pleased with his defense’s per¬formance but concerned about the per¬ formance of his offense. “Our defense \excellent all around. Mike Karluk andCHerzog had very good games. Our offecame through when we needed it, buttgoing to have to put more points on lboard if we're going to beat Lawrence.”Although one would not disagreeCoach Lombardi’s analysis, it should]pointed out that Lawrence beat this iLake Forest team by a meager score of]the week before. They are co-favored iRipon to win the Eastern Divisional title]the conference and a Chicago win;them next Saturday would be impressive]The Maroons will take on Lawrence iStagg Field. The game will start at 2:00.jrj mmclassified ads^reward for saleof contents ot gray Blue goose-down *rTS^TTonlenls of grayicsse taken from outsideTues Oct. 5 No questionsthe books and papers—rase 493-5270 GAY PEOPLEINATOWN"iT'Chinatown—a great opitv to see one of Chicago'sntlohborhoods Sign up in adIf Crossroads student center,Blackstone (084 6060. DriversntMjtd Leave 6 p m. fromhPrl..Oct.». :GENE WOLFE. IDAiurs., Oct. 21. 8:30 p.m.ie poetry of the foot" Join!kdancers every Mon. beg.thing or Sun. gen levelin Ida Noyes 8 p.m., 50I gen level, no teaching. Blue goose-down winter coat, good for20F . $25. 642 0069.Olivetti manual typewriter L33 exc.condition, $50 day. 753 3946 eve. 721 -6040 ask for LeaWomans bicycle, Raleigh 3-spd.. 23",exc. cond. $75 or best offer. David 624-3363 (in H.P.)Stereo receivers, speakers, tapedecks, tapes, TV's, calculators,refrigerators, CB’s, all at lowestprices. Call 752 3818.PASSPORT PHOTOSColor, 2 for $9.00MODEL CAMERA1342 E . 55th St. 493-6700ACADEMIC RESEARCH PAPERS.Thousands on file. Send $1.00 for your192-page, mail-order catalog. 11322Idaho Ave., 206H, Los Angeles, Calif.90025. (213) 447 8474.KUAN HAN CHINLe Pavlllion au bord de la rivieree:drama from France. 13th centuryChinese Opera Drama. Mandel. Oct.24 & 25. Tickets on sale now. RC 304,753 3581. GAY PEOPLE'S POT LUCK SUPPER. Saturday. October 23, at 7:00P M Call the Office. 753 3274. 8-10 PM,for Further Details.LOSTLost—Black daily date book, about sixof UC time schedule. I'm lost withoutit. Karen. 752-6097.CALCULATORSFOR BEST PRICES ONCALCULATORS HP, T I , CORVUS,NOVUS, ROCKWELL Plus manymore, CALL Jeff at 753 2249 rm. 3410,leave message,PERSONALSLois L.-turned down the $2 million. Apaltry sum. We'll shoot for 3. Jacquesand Kent would be proud -Jimmy O.Writers' Workshop. PL 2-8377.Know me? i love ya.Help Woodsy{spread the word!In the city...or in the woods,Help keepAmericalooking good!live a hoot!>n’t pollute! PSCJt RvkU COUNT*0f»c< $4 95, cloth $12.95 JSIMON AND SCHUSTER % SPACEROOMMATE WANTED for targe apt.,52nd & Dorchester, $70/month. Call363 5151.Th rm. (studio) apt. newly decorated,bright, clean. Well managed bldg.,53rd & Kenwood, $140 per month,immediate occupancy. Parker-Holsman. 493-2525.APARTMENT TO SHARE: 8 largerooms, 3 baths, washer, dryer,parking, top floor, 5 minutes from U.of C. l block from lake. $90/month.Call Yur eves., weekends, 288-5799Woman wanted to share huge doublewith another woman in DU Frat.Fireplace, private bath, furnished.$75/mo. 5714 Woodlawn, 753-3444, Jimor Patti.Wanted. Mature person to shareHouse. Very desirable location PL 2-8377.5 + 6 Room apts. In building beingrehabilitated. 5 min. from U. of C. on61st St. Coleman Carp 373-1800.PEOPLE WANTEDSUBJECTS WANTED forpsycholinguistics experiments in theBehavorial Sciences Department. Payis 82/hr. Call 753-4710 to register.The Bio Sci Committee is Looking fortutors in Biology. Call Linda Degen-stein 753-2233.THE SURVEY OF RECENT EASTEUROPEAN MATHEMATICAL• LITERATURE needs competentRussian-to-Eng translators with asubstantial knowledge of scientificRussian as well as good typists with areasonable knowledge of the Russianlanguage For more information callHarvey Edelberg at 753-2741 or cometo room 410 Eckhart Hall, Dept, ofMathematics during office hours, 8:30to5:00. PEOPLEFOR SALE LOST DOGEXP SEL IBM Typist, ALL Types ofwork FREE Pickup and Delivery. Call374 0081 or 721-1169Piano lessons in your home. Call 324-1461.Native French Teacher offrs. tutoringand translating, 55/hr. Call 324-8054Tutoring by French natives, teachingexperience, PhD candidates call 354-0275 or 837 8524. Lost on 10/15, male, brown + whitebull terrier, 6 mos answers to Roscoe.Has a white spot in back and waswearing white choke collar, callLauren at 947-0137 or 3 2249. ext. 3307.Substantial reward.WANTED!FILE CABINET good condition, 2ndhand, cheap. Pref. 4 drawer Pleasecall 324-5215. Thanks.PAN PIZZADELIVEREDThe Medici Delivers from 10 p.m.weekdays. 5-11 Saturday, 667-7394.Save 60 cents if you pick it up yourself. PASSINGTHE E.R.A."Passing the E.R.A in Illinois" is thetopic of the Oct 19 meeting of theUniversity Feminists at 7:30 P M inthe Blue Gargoyle.ALARMSYSTEMS IKDon't Pay to have your house orapartment wired until you see theNEW wireless alarm system fromphone-mate. For a demonstration callJef 753-2249 3410 Drama from France: Peter Brook willdirect IK, to be presented October 23.24, and 25 in Bartlett Gymnasium.Tickets on sale now RC 304 753 3581.STEREO-C.B.For your home and car stereo needs(Pioneer. Sankyo. Akai, NIL) alongwith Citizens band radio at theLOWEST PRICES call Jeff at 753 2249rm. 3410, leave mess.BOOKS BOUGHTBooks Bought & Sold everyday,every night 9-11. Powells. 1501 E. 57th. AUTO ACC.2 snowtires size 700 x 13. $15. 1 NewYorker heavy duty Falcon660. Battery(New) $25,241-1048.2nd edition -completelyrevised and expandedSince its initial publication in 1973, OUR BODIES, OURSELVESby The Boston Women’s Health Book Collective has sold over1,000,000 copies. In this second edition, more than half of thecontents are brand-new and the balance has been totally revised.“The most importantbook to come out ofThe Women’s Movement.”- Ellen Frankfort, Village VoiceThe Whole Earth Catalogcalls it “A masterpiece.”— Diane Shugart“Universal in appeal...The information imparted is vitaland simply expressed.’’-Carol Kleiman, Chicago Tribune“One of those rarebooks that trulymakes a difference.”— Genevieve Stuttaford,Saturday Review• Full Selection of the Womanfoday Book Club • Alternatefaction of the Quality Papeibackcook Service • Alternate Selec-Jon °f the Psychology Today.c,ub • Touchstone paper-ba<* * 95. cloth $12.95 WHPK-FMInteresting rock and folk, with nocommercials, can be yours everyweekday morning from 6 AM to noonLou Feliz features the music ofChicago artists tomorrow morning, 6to 9 AM, WHPK-FM 88.3.Worthwhile public affairs shows?Yes—every weeknight at 9 PM on WH-PK. Tonight, Michael Hoff interviewsEd Sadlowski, candidate for presidentof the United Steel Workers, onPolitical Forum."Good jazz, all night long, everyweeknight starting at 10 PM, is on WHPK. Tonight, Ted Panken features themusic of and interviews saxophonistJohn Stubblefield (currently with NatAdderly) at 10 PM.Classical music? Every weekday. 2 5PM and 6-9 PM.Coming next week The WHPK/ECMJazz Festival Giveaway!9{ ywi'ueGot 91...Shm it with Mm.People in this community gave nearly 7,000 unitsof blood last year, but that still amounted tofewer than half the units the Blood Bank used.There is always a need for blood. Nobody canmake it. But you can give it.Come by our tent (that big thing in thequadrangle over the "C" bench near Cobb) andfill out a pledge card today.Get In the giving habit.Give Blood.UCHC BLOOD BMKBILLINGS, U-134947-5579The Chicago Maroon—Tuesday, October 19,1974—11“ApartofFrenchCulturalArtsWeek” 4thFloorofCobb(open10-5M-F,12-5Sat.) October22ndthru28th(6daysonly) ivOpeningpartyFridayOctober22 5-7pmEveryonePleaseComeTheChicagoMaroon Inside Mobilecuisine,p.3Friedmaninterview,p.6